Transmission Questions
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- Advanced Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:01 pm
- My tercel:: 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5
- Location: Lake George, NY
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Transmission Questions
After reading posts for a while on this forum I gather that Tercel manual transmissions develop problems as they age. Don't we all. What exactly are the problems that members experienced? Was it bearings? Synchros? Or was it something more serious like chipped gears or worn shafts? Have members discarded transmissions without tearing down and checking what went wrong?
Cheers!
Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles under partial restoration
'88 Fiero GT with 22k miles and driven daily
'65 Ford Econoline 5-window pickup under full restoration
Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles under partial restoration
'88 Fiero GT with 22k miles and driven daily
'65 Ford Econoline 5-window pickup under full restoration
- splatterdog
- Highest Ranking Member
- Posts: 1623
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:26 am
- Location: Minnesota, USA
Re: Transmission Questions
Poor maintenance at some time in the car's life seems to be the biggest factor. Driving habits of course too. I have been fortunate,no grenades and my worst out of 4 only has only gear whine. No dissections yet for me.
The input bearings seem to be the most vulnerable on most any manual. Ours are more at risk as there are more input bearings and they are above the rest of the trans with the input shaft not inline with the mainshaft. It would be cool if the manual had a lube flow chart indicating what gets oil pressure. Most manuals only get splash oiling. For gear boxes, I have yet to see anything other than a transfer case have an oil pump.
From what I've heard here, the "end" typically starts with 5th popping out with more gears to follow. Could come from bearings(endplay),synchros,bent or worn shift collars/forks,broken detent springs,etc. Grenadings, at least on a previously healthy trans, are usually driver caused with maybe poor maintenance thrown in.
I would highly recommend synthetic oil. Worth it in any manual, especially obsolete ones that are diminishing in supply.
The input bearings seem to be the most vulnerable on most any manual. Ours are more at risk as there are more input bearings and they are above the rest of the trans with the input shaft not inline with the mainshaft. It would be cool if the manual had a lube flow chart indicating what gets oil pressure. Most manuals only get splash oiling. For gear boxes, I have yet to see anything other than a transfer case have an oil pump.
From what I've heard here, the "end" typically starts with 5th popping out with more gears to follow. Could come from bearings(endplay),synchros,bent or worn shift collars/forks,broken detent springs,etc. Grenadings, at least on a previously healthy trans, are usually driver caused with maybe poor maintenance thrown in.
I would highly recommend synthetic oil. Worth it in any manual, especially obsolete ones that are diminishing in supply.
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- Advanced Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:01 pm
- My tercel:: 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5
- Location: Lake George, NY
- Contact:
Re: Transmission Questions
Thanks for the reply and info. My '84 SR5 has 257k miles on it. It was driven by a little old lady(really!) who kept meticulous car and records. I was given every receipt for service performed on the car after the warranty expired. The first invoice for synthetic tranny oil is from December 1989 at 82,000 miles. There are further invoices for tranny oil changes over the following years.splatterdog wrote:Poor maintenance at some time in the car's life seems to be the biggest factor. Driving habits of course too......No dissections yet for me..... The input bearings seem to be the most vulnerable on most any manual. Ours are more at risk as there are more input bearings and they are above the rest of the trans with the input shaft not inline with the mainshaft..... I would highly recommend synthetic oil. Worth it in any manual, especially obsolete ones that are diminishing in supply.
The transmission was never an issue until she complained about being hard to shift at 239k miles in March 2005. The shop drained and replaced the gear oil and added BG Synchro Shift. The clutch was replaced at 243K miles in October 2005 at which time they refilled the transaxle with 80W90 synthetic gear oil.
The transmission was supposedly never an issue until I took ownership. I drove the car and immediately noticed a noise when idling in neutral or moving in any gear. There is no noise when idling or coasting when the clutch is disengaged. That leads me to believe the input shaft bearings are shot.
So, I decided to remove the tranny myself with the aid of the FSM and Petros' guidance. I drained the oil and it came out clean which is not surprising since there are only 14k miles on the last oil change. The drain plug magnets had a very small amount of iron particles on their sides. I am about 75% done with the necessary steps and as Harry Callahan said in "Magnum Force", "A man's got to know his limitations." Well, it is just too much for this physically damaged old fart. I give up. I'm either going to have the work done by someone else in my garage or I will have it flatbedded to their location.
Assuming that the problem is minor and is only the input shaft bearings, what grade synthetic would you recommend? I've had good results in my cars with Red Line Synthetic MTL (70W80) and MT-90 (75W90) lubes.
Oh, to be young again.
Cheers!
Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles under partial restoration
'88 Fiero GT with 22k miles and driven daily
'65 Ford Econoline 5-window pickup under full restoration
Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles under partial restoration
'88 Fiero GT with 22k miles and driven daily
'65 Ford Econoline 5-window pickup under full restoration
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- Member
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- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:59 am
- My tercel:: 1987 SR5 4wd, 2 inch exhaust
Re: Transmission Questions
I like Amsoil 75-90 Severe gear. I've had it in my terc since 170,00. It's got 220,000 on it now and going strong.
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- Advanced Member
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:19 pm
- My tercel:: 1983 6spd 4wd DLX
- Location: Freeman, SD.
Re: Transmission Questions
noise during idle or when the clutch is disengauged sounds to me like the throwout bearing being bad. I had a Bronco II that did the exact same thing. My Legend use to do that too until the throwout was replaced. I am new to the Tercel so I don't have any more information for you, this is just what I have experienced with other cars in the past.
I wish you good luck in anything you do with the car.
I wish you good luck in anything you do with the car.
Dawson
1990 Acura Legend sedan 2.7 5MT
1993 Ford Escort LX wagon 1.9
1994 Saab 900 SE 2.5
1992 Toyota 4Runner SR5 3.0 5MT-SOLD
1983 Toyota Tercel 4WD 1.5 6MT-SOLD.
1990 Acura Legend sedan 2.7 5MT
1993 Ford Escort LX wagon 1.9
1994 Saab 900 SE 2.5
1992 Toyota 4Runner SR5 3.0 5MT-SOLD
1983 Toyota Tercel 4WD 1.5 6MT-SOLD.
Re: Transmission Questions
My last trans with over 200K on it started to put metal particles into the oil...so that when drained into a pan and looked at under a strong light or in sunlight...it looked metallic. Can't really see this unless it is allowed to settle and is under strong light. Guessing I had a bearing start to go....got very noisy..a white noise. No gear whine or shifting issues.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
- Mattel
- Highest Ranking Member
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:11 am
- My tercel:: 1988 Corolla 4wd Wagon (AKA Corolla All-trac) 5speed, AC, Power Sunroof, Windows, Mirrors, Steering, Locking, Diff Lock, 14" Corolla SX Alloys with Silica Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, 210,000kms
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Transmission Questions
Ron, I would defiantly second 4x4wagons diagnosis of the throwout bearing, as far as I am concerned this item should be changed when the clutch gets changed. It's apparently relatively easy to do. I did not get this changed when my first Terc clutch went and had exactly the same issues as you. I recall that some clutch sellers sold a little kit for extra with the clutch that includes these bearings and other small items (perhaps some gaskets and moly-lithium grease?). If you have the inclination to open the clutch and have a look I'd expect all to come apparent. I look forward to seeing your car on the road and admire your attention to detail.
Previous: 83 Tercel SR5 4wd, 84 Tercel SR5 4wd
88 Corolla 4wd Wagon 5speed, All power options, Fact Sunroof, Diff Lock, 14" SX Alloys, Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, Tow Bar, 210,000kms
88 Corolla 4wd Wagon 5speed, All power options, Fact Sunroof, Diff Lock, 14" SX Alloys, Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, Tow Bar, 210,000kms
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- Advanced Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:01 pm
- My tercel:: 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5
- Location: Lake George, NY
- Contact:
Re: Transmission Questions
I may have worded my post in a way that confused both you and 4x4wagon. There is NO noise when the clutch is disengaged (pushed to the floor). I would agree that the throwout bearing would be defective if it was noisy when the pedal is depressed. The bearing was replaced along with the clutch 14k miles ago leading me to believe the problem is in the transmission, either the input shaft bearings or bearings deeper inside the case.Mattel wrote:Ron, I would defiantly second 4x4wagons diagnosis of the throwout bearing, as far as I am concerned this item should be changed when the clutch gets changed..... I look forward to seeing your car on the road and admire your attention to detail.
Thanks for the compliments. I am totally anal when it comes to details plus my wife is an angel......she puts up with me and my projects.
Cheers!
Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles under partial restoration
'88 Fiero GT with 22k miles and driven daily
'65 Ford Econoline 5-window pickup under full restoration
Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles under partial restoration
'88 Fiero GT with 22k miles and driven daily
'65 Ford Econoline 5-window pickup under full restoration
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- Advanced Member
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:19 pm
- My tercel:: 1983 6spd 4wd DLX
- Location: Freeman, SD.
Re: Transmission Questions
Oh, I see. You meant when the clutch itself is disengaged, I was thinking when the clutch pedal is disengaged. Well if that is when it's making the noise, it is probably something deeper inside the trans then. I myself cannot offer anymore information as to what it may be, but I do hope you get the issue resolved easily.
Dawson
1990 Acura Legend sedan 2.7 5MT
1993 Ford Escort LX wagon 1.9
1994 Saab 900 SE 2.5
1992 Toyota 4Runner SR5 3.0 5MT-SOLD
1983 Toyota Tercel 4WD 1.5 6MT-SOLD.
1990 Acura Legend sedan 2.7 5MT
1993 Ford Escort LX wagon 1.9
1994 Saab 900 SE 2.5
1992 Toyota 4Runner SR5 3.0 5MT-SOLD
1983 Toyota Tercel 4WD 1.5 6MT-SOLD.
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- Advanced Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:01 pm
- My tercel:: 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5
- Location: Lake George, NY
- Contact:
Re: Transmission Questions
Oh, it will be easy now that I have someone scheduled to come over and remove the transmission for me! I will then have the transmission rebuilt with new bearings, synchros, gaskets and seals by a pro. I plan to have all internal parts cryo hardened before it is reassembled. Hopefully, that will be the end of transmission concerns. Hopefully?!4x4wagon wrote:.....I do hope you get the issue resolved easily.
Cheers!
Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles under partial restoration
'88 Fiero GT with 22k miles and driven daily
'65 Ford Econoline 5-window pickup under full restoration
Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles under partial restoration
'88 Fiero GT with 22k miles and driven daily
'65 Ford Econoline 5-window pickup under full restoration
- Mattel
- Highest Ranking Member
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:11 am
- My tercel:: 1988 Corolla 4wd Wagon (AKA Corolla All-trac) 5speed, AC, Power Sunroof, Windows, Mirrors, Steering, Locking, Diff Lock, 14" Corolla SX Alloys with Silica Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, 210,000kms
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Transmission Questions
I'm pretty sure we're on the same wavelength with the sounds.. i.e only had noise when the clutch peddle was out but none when the peddle was pressed in. It was especially noticeable when rolling down in a hill with the clutch out in gear but strangely I had no sound in neutral. perhaps there was something else wrong with my old rig that the clutch replacement started off?
Previous: 83 Tercel SR5 4wd, 84 Tercel SR5 4wd
88 Corolla 4wd Wagon 5speed, All power options, Fact Sunroof, Diff Lock, 14" SX Alloys, Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, Tow Bar, 210,000kms
88 Corolla 4wd Wagon 5speed, All power options, Fact Sunroof, Diff Lock, 14" SX Alloys, Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, Tow Bar, 210,000kms
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- Highest Ranking Member
- Posts: 677
- Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:00 am
- My tercel:: 83 4WD with some SR5 equip
- Location: SURREY,B.C. Canada
Re: Transmission Questions
I use to had 86 4WD , first have to press the clutch panel down so starter will work anyway ,every morning when I start the car , idial at 2,000 rpm and when I release the clutch , it always reduce to 1,700 rpm at same time car move forward few inches at neutral . what that mean ,all my other 4WD doesn't have that problem
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- Advanced Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:01 pm
- My tercel:: 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5
- Location: Lake George, NY
- Contact:
Re: Transmission Questions
Generally they are signs that the gear oil has thickened when cold. Was the car kept outside in cold temps? Did the symptoms manifest themselves during warm or hot weather? Was the gear oil the proper viscosity?toughtercel wrote:.....every morning when I start the car , idial at 2,000 rpm and when I release the clutch , it always reduce to 1,700 rpm at same time car move forward few inches at neutral.....
Cheers!
Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles under partial restoration
'88 Fiero GT with 22k miles and driven daily
'65 Ford Econoline 5-window pickup under full restoration
Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles under partial restoration
'88 Fiero GT with 22k miles and driven daily
'65 Ford Econoline 5-window pickup under full restoration
- ARCHINSTL
- Goldie Forever
- Posts: 6369
- Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:52 pm
- My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
- Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis
Re: Transmission Questions
Well - here is yet another transmission (?) noise to add to the list:
This occurs usually only at 60 +/- a bit...I hit 60 and reduce the pedal pressure just a tad (as in going down a hill with the radar car at the bottom) and I get a kind of rattle, seemingly from the trans. It's not real loud, but just pretty noticeable. When I resume speed, it disappears.
The car has 180K miles. The OE clutch is tired, but smooth starts are still obtainable. I rarely hit over 65 - not from my senescence, but that of Goldie's.
Tom M.
This occurs usually only at 60 +/- a bit...I hit 60 and reduce the pedal pressure just a tad (as in going down a hill with the radar car at the bottom) and I get a kind of rattle, seemingly from the trans. It's not real loud, but just pretty noticeable. When I resume speed, it disappears.
The car has 180K miles. The OE clutch is tired, but smooth starts are still obtainable. I rarely hit over 65 - not from my senescence, but that of Goldie's.
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
- garyfish
- Highest Ranking Member
- Posts: 889
- Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:22 pm
- My tercel:: 1985 Tercel SR5, stock; 1987 T4WD DLX wagon, manual tranny
- Location: North Coastal California
Re: Transmission Questions
I think I need to replace the input shaft and/or its associated bearings in the manual tranny of my '85 T4WD w/ 238,000 miles. When I bought the car last February it had a peculiar noise (see below) which I thought was the clutch, but the noise remained after I replaced the clutch disc, pressure plate, pilot bearing, and throwout bearing. It appears to be the same problem noted by the late great Rob B. in a post here a few months ago:
Any input or assistance here will be most welcome... procedures, sources for parts, whether or not it's recommended for "backyard" mechanics with standard tools, etc.
So, my question is this: Has anyone on the list dealt with this issue successfully? I'm thinking perhaps I don't need to swap out the whole tranny, and that I may be able to get by if I replace the input shaft & its bearings.Ron B. wrote:a noise when idling in neutral or moving in any gear. There is no noise when idling or coasting when the clutch is disengaged. That leads me to believe the input shaft bearings are shot.
Any input or assistance here will be most welcome... procedures, sources for parts, whether or not it's recommended for "backyard" mechanics with standard tools, etc.
1985 Tercel SR5 4WD wagon, 300K
1987 Tercel DLX 4WD wagon, 6-speed manual, 274K -- got this one running Jan. 2015 (had been sitting for 2 years); this has been my daily driver since 2016
1987 Tercel DLX 4WD wagon, 6-speed manual, 274K -- got this one running Jan. 2015 (had been sitting for 2 years); this has been my daily driver since 2016